Have Your Say

I have just received this DVD and thought it would be great to use in our church as we are needing to look at whole-life discipleship and mission issues. However I was disappointed because as part of a multi-ethnic fellowship I would be reluctant to use it for the simple reason that every person who participates in this DVD (including att the church leader interviews and partner interviews) is white with the possible exception of one gentleman who may have had an Asian background. Even the EA, who have an oustanding black leader in Joel Edwards, were represented by a while man. This for me has spoiled a potentially useful resource and I am deeply disappointed.

We received the DVD from Bristol Diocese last year, and after review by the PCC we decided to use it in a series of two eveining sessions for a group of rural Anglican churches in the north Wiltshire area. These parishes are in the process of being amalgamated into a new group as part of the Bristol Diocese North Wilts Deanery reorganisation. We followed the suggested idea of breaking the main film into two followed by discussion in smaller groups, using questions from your outline, but "tweaked" to suit what we saw as the key points relevant to our rural (and in many cases very traditional Anglican) situations. I confess, to, that in our publicity for the evnts we changed the title to "Imagine ... how we can reach our neighbours", as it seems key to start where WE are. There were about 30 people to each session, representing about 5 of the churches. On the subject of the DVD, everyone commented on the very high standard of production and content, and on the brilliant presentation of the subject matter by Mark Green. The discussion in the smaller groups was lively and we had to curtail it on both evenings to keep within a reasonable timeframe, which is an excellent reason. There were no long silences or people not participating. Many people have said how challenging the seesions were and wished that there could have been more of them! We were especially encouraged by this Email from a lady from one of the churches, who put into written words what many others have expressed verbally:- "Thank you and the Lea fellowship, so, so much for inviting us to 'Imagine'. Thank you for the welcome and fellowship. Thank you for the cuppas. Thank you for the thought, time and effort that went in to selecting the materials, setting out the church and planning the session formats. and especially THANK YOU for the encouragement to be a whole-life apprentice in a whole-life disciple-making church." Several people who missed one or other of the sessions are in a queue to borrow the DVD to catch up on what they missed! So thank you very much to all at LICC who were involved in putting together such a great addition to Christian resource material.

wow, what a great DVD. this really resonated with me. i am part of a project trying to equip the church to deal with menal health issues that are so common in society and the church and hitherto we have not been discipled to deal with. i am very excited. you can see more at our website - click on my name to go there.

Having spouted off at (moderate) length about the need to stop thinking solely in terms of pastors when it comes to discipleship, I discover that there is, in fact, a chapter in the book directed at the fivefold ministry from Ephesians 4. Guess I should read the Table of Contents completely before speaking. The question remains: in addition to what we learn from the chapter here, are there others using and finding effectiveness in this approach to ministry and discipleship? What does it really look like in those (your) situation?

I just received the book this morning and have read only the intro so far, but I am very excited to dig in more deeply. The conversations you have brought into focus in this book are being (and need to be) multiplied around the world. The failure to disciple is, by no means, unique to the UK! I do have one question/observation coming out of the intro (by editor, Mark Greene): are we continuing to shoot ourselves in the foot (feet?) by the constant references (and inferences) in our books and blogs that "pastors and church members" need to become intentional about discipleship? I have grown fond of the analogy that suggests if the only tool you have is a hammer, then every problem/need you face will be considered a nail. "Pastor," according to the Apostle Paul, is not the only resource for (not should it be the sole focus of our) discipling efforts. In Ephesians 4:11-16, Paul lists four (or five, depending on your understanding of pastor and teacher) types of gifted people who are needed to "equip the saints." I would suggest that our discipling efforts would be dramatically enhanced if we would begin by identifying all the gifted folks who need to be engaged in "admonishing and teaching everyone, with all wisdom, so that we might present each one mature in Christ." Pastors will not do well in attempting to equip apostles, evangelists will not do well equipping prophets. Let's begin to ask God to show us who the other gifted folks are so that we might come at discipleship with all the tools at disposal. That said, I confess I do not know of many churches/communities which are truly engaged in this sort of ministry. Is there anyone out there who can point to some more examples?

This may be a bit of a light diversion, but I got sent this postcard, and it made me think about some of the things we'd discussed at the imagine day http://www.cartoonchurch.com/content/cc/how-to-make-church-brilliant/ Maybe if people are looking for ways to get their churches thinking about things in a fresh way, postcards like this might be one way?

Are there any more Imagine workshops planned in the London area? My church is in Ware, Hertfordshire. The last workshop in London was already fully booked and there current ones are too far to travel. But we'd really like to attend one! Thanks Susanna

I'm a relatively new Idea reader, but I thought the "Imagine: Let My People Grow" articles were truly excellent. Yesterday, the Christian fellowship where I work had a discussion, led by a curate at my church, on engaging with our culture. Many issues were raised which overlap the Imagine project. I ordered some copies from LICC and will circulate them round the staff of our church. I wonder what other practical steps I and others could take? For instance, is a presentation available which I could offer to our PCC? It's good to take individual action, but I think this also needs to be combined with disseminating the ideas from the Imagine project round the body of Christ.

The last edition of IDEA/Let My People Grow was a real encouragement - I particularly liked the idea of "scaffolding" and the affirmation that it was okay to experiment without knowing the outcome. It gave me a push to get on and actually START a programme of one to one discipleship in our fellowship even though I hadn't yet found the materials that I wanted nor knew how the programme might develop. I got on and wrote my own discipleship questionnaire and started recruiting volunteers to be both pilgrims and guides. I've no idea how it will work out but it is a start. You can see it if you wish by fetching a copy at http://www.wimborne-baptist.org.uk/Resources/wholelife.pdf It's untested, unproven and I don't even know if it will work. But its one piece of scaffolding we're climbing up on at present. If you want to climb on it too, feel free. Comments or contact welcome via the church web site - http://www.wimborne-baptist.org.uk/ using the "Send us email" link at the top of the page.

Reading about Imagine was like opening a door in a very stuffy room. At last Monday to Saturday is to count for something and we are to be trained in whole life discipleship. Will all those trips to the pub with work colleagues at last count for something within the church? Will this have the additional benefit of staunching the flow of men and working singles leaving the church? I do hope so. As importantly will Church leaders be able to "Let My people go"? I have long been bewildered by the current trend for church business and activities particularly in a long working hours culture. Will church leaders really be able to relinquish control and send us out into the world? Will they recognize the need for spontaneity so that we can give the very real gift of time to redundant colleagues, bereaved colleagues, sick colleagues? I do very much hope so. Please keep going with this project!

I agree with much of what is on this site, but are we giving in to the world's view of righteousness when we accuse ourselves of being too focussed on heaven and not on this life? If we are so uninvolved in the world why are so many of the charities on the DEC website of evangelical origin, for example. Maybe I was spoilt at my church, and was taught a wider perspective. I am convinced that the real solution is to train and encourage laity to know their Bibles - if you read books as a whole not proof texting verses then it is soon apparent that God's scope is the whole of our lives.

Thank you. Best idea edition ever. Good to see research base for development of the project. I see Jesus getting alongside people in their ordinary lives, listening lots, challenging on just the right spot (focused), encouraging by His compassion, reflecting the values of our Father. Demonstrating His love & awesome beauty. Pleased to see you encouraging us to do the same. Be like Jesus the servant leader who turned the world upside down and took our values and turned them on their head too! Excellent. Keep going.

Thanks for this mini-site and its user-friendliness. "It is now generally acknowledged … that one can be a professing Christian and a church member in good standing without being a disciple" Dallas Willard I've browsed the site this pm, read and reflected on a few things - still finding the same question bubbling up in me, as it did when I first read 'Imagine' two months ago. Rather than 'how do we reach the UK?', I feel the first question needs to be 'how do we reach the institutional Church?' Perhaps that's what Project Imagine is saying too.....? But what you've termed the 'sacred-secular divide' isn't new, is it? It suffuses both Testaments of the Bible, challenging the Prophets and Jesus, too. Now He's very shrewd; rather than spending the whole of His Ministry, trying to sort one from the other, He tells secular stories (about everyday events), reading the sacred and the spiritual 'through' their incidents (i.e the reverse order of Word for the Week). Why don't we copy His example? When we make His method/way our everyday lifestyle, the 'divide' dissolves into seamless discipleship. (No doubt someone will remind me that this is what Theology aims to do.) With regard to Dallas Willard's quote above, it seems that you've yet to recognise that thousands of us are professing Christians and everyday disciples, without being church members. We were, until we realised the discrepancy between the Gospel and the institutional Church's institutionalism, - and left (1992 in my case). I can answer 'Yes' to more than 75% of your 20 simple steps, but I'm not gate-keeping clergy, and who else will hear and work with me - without their say-so? Pray to the Lord of the harvest that He calls more workers to the vineyard. Pilgrim

We started up a project titled 'The Oasis Project' in Doncaster. We organised a team from various churches in Doncaster, bought 200 bottles of water and set a date! On each bottle of water we attached the verse from John 4 v 14. The idea was that on a thursday night we would head into Doncasters Town Centre to hand out this bottled water to people coming out of clubs and pubs. We informed the police of our project and made sure we had plenty guys on the team for security purposes. The first night was a huge success. Many questions were asked, 200 bottles were given out in 45 mins. A month later we went out again, this time 400 bottles of water and more quesrions asked. The third time we went out with 300 bottles with the aim to get more conversations. So many deep converations were had, praise God! I would recommend setting an Oasis Project up in your town/city centre! Trust in God and watch him move! Gem x

I think it’s every bit as powerful as the first article 'Imagine how we can reach the UK'. I’m sure it will move things on for those already engaged with you. It will also capture a few more new readers I reckon.

It’s mentioned on several occasions that one cannot separate evangelism and discipleship/mission and maturing/etc. I completely agree – ‘If you abide in me, you WILL bear much fruit (John 15)’. Because of what I do and my own personal passions for evangelism and mission, as I read through I made a natural link from ‘seeing humans flourish/churches connecting to Monday to Saturday/relating Gospel to real life’ to ‘so that the lost people of the UK will have an opportunity to discover Jesus’. On second reading though there were moments when I wondered if the non-evangelistically minded reader will read ‘it’s all about me growing (full stop)’ and miss the reason for growth – building/adding to God’s kingdom – bringing others into full life with Jesus where they will really flourish. As the natural tendency is always away from evangelism and towards the insular, I don’t think we can make assumptions that people will think and apply the principles outwardly. The danger is that we have insular churches with members who feel more support Monday to Friday from their church but the UK still remains unreached.

Thanks for making sense of the many jumbled thoughts, questions and heart-felt groans that have dominated my own thinking over recent months as I have attempted to grapple with the issue of discipleship.

I enjoyed the case studies and the stories. I also thought the parable of the 12 lumps of dough with only one having yeast was excellent.

All I can say is that the hairs on the back of my head are still standing on end as I was deeply moved and challenged by it. If this doesn't make Christians really think through the issues and wrestle with their 'old models, values and attitudes to church, discipleship, mission and change' I don't know what will.